Comments on: Less reaching out and more touching http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/ A fun exploration of 2D binary fractal mapping Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:46:47 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: subsume http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-18 subsume Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:34:31 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-18 @JebusWankel That gets to the heart of web app problems. The site is not in control of the browser, and the iPhone in particular seems very locked down and unlikely to allow plugins. Neither does the user control the site, so it ultimately falls on the site designer to keep interface changes in mind. It's not just an iPhone/Safari issue, either. As I said, touch screens aren't new, but I think the iPhone has set the stage for them to become more popular than ever, so it's generally a good idea to be mindful that the long-familiar mouse pointer is being depreciated. @JebusWankel

That gets to the heart of web app problems. The site is not in control of the browser, and the iPhone in particular seems very locked down and unlikely to allow plugins. Neither does the user control the site, so it ultimately falls on the site designer to keep interface changes in mind. It’s not just an iPhone/Safari issue, either. As I said, touch screens aren’t new, but I think the iPhone has set the stage for them to become more popular than ever, so it’s generally a good idea to be mindful that the long-familiar mouse pointer is being depreciated.

]]> By: JebusWankel http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-17 JebusWankel Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:41:57 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-17 Perhaps a safari browser plugin could better emulate a mouse for such sites. Touching with one finger could emulate a mouse hover and holding with the first while touching with a second finger could emulate a click. Perhaps a safari browser plugin could better emulate a mouse for such sites. Touching with one finger could emulate a mouse hover and holding with the first while touching with a second finger could emulate a click.

]]> By: Aging like a not-so-fine wine « The Ancient Game of Future Dominions http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-14 Aging like a not-so-fine wine « The Ancient Game of Future Dominions Tue, 03 Jul 2007 04:41:39 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-14 [...] by the iPhone release alone. Even now we’re just starting to see scattered reports, just like we expected, of some Web 2.0 techniques not quite working on the [...] [...] by the iPhone release alone. Even now we’re just starting to see scattered reports, just like we expected, of some Web 2.0 techniques not quite working on the [...]

]]> By: Countries in colors » Blog Archive » The do’s and dont’s of iPhone web development http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-12 Countries in colors » Blog Archive » The do’s and dont’s of iPhone web development Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:16:27 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-12 [...] have thought that the advent of a finger control interface would spark so much debate? Others have debated at length on the implications of finger browsing, but the main conclusions may be summarized as [...] [...] have thought that the advent of a finger control interface would spark so much debate? Others have debated at length on the implications of finger browsing, but the main conclusions may be summarized as [...]

]]> By: Top Posts « WordPress.com http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-8 Top Posts « WordPress.com Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:58:59 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-8 [...] Less reaching out and more touching It hasn’t escaped our attention that the Subsume alpha makes somewhat heavy use of “onmouse” events […] [...] [...] Less reaching out and more touching It hasn’t escaped our attention that the Subsume alpha makes somewhat heavy use of “onmouse” events […] [...]

]]> By: treyharrell http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-7 treyharrell Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:56:04 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-7 I think that based on the specs that were leaked, the browser reports that it's a 480px width, which could screw up a lot of assumptions based on getting apps to scale to 100% in portrait view. I've decided that I'm going to develop a second CSS layout for <a href='http://www.iphone-geek.com' rel="nofollow">my site</a> (done with the shameless plugs), but not launch it until I've had a chance to test with the real deal. iPhoney is cool, but between the scrollbars and the fact that it allows rollovers, Flash and other stuff to load, it's not much use unless you're just testing user-agent redirection. I'm also what javascript hooks are available into the browser... not like you can test for mouse position, window position, hover, release, or a ton of other shortcuts web dev types use to make designs work (or quiet client demands, as the case is usually). I'll definitely be running the browser and mail through a serious torture test next week, from a dev perspective. I think that based on the specs that were leaked, the browser reports that it’s a 480px width, which could screw up a lot of assumptions based on getting apps to scale to 100% in portrait view.

I’ve decided that I’m going to develop a second CSS layout for my site (done with the shameless plugs), but not launch it until I’ve had a chance to test with the real deal. iPhoney is cool, but between the scrollbars and the fact that it allows rollovers, Flash and other stuff to load, it’s not much use unless you’re just testing user-agent redirection.

I’m also what javascript hooks are available into the browser… not like you can test for mouse position, window position, hover, release, or a ton of other shortcuts web dev types use to make designs work (or quiet client demands, as the case is usually).

I’ll definitely be running the browser and mail through a serious torture test next week, from a dev perspective.

]]> By: subsume http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-6 subsume Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:28:55 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-6 @treyharrell The landscape/portrait is a really interesting issue when combined with what looks like a lack of scroll bars. For the purposes of the game, we tried to take advantage of the mode changes by using them to show/hide extra player info, but I don't know what it'll mean for regular pages. In the Apple videos I've seen, pages appear to be rendered by some method at their "largest" size, and you'd flick/zoom around using the iPhone screen as a kind of portal view on the page. I have no idea what that is going to mean for elements that are sized relatively. What does it mean to say something has 50% width when there is no window to size it relative to? I also wonder how things like CSS position:fixed is going to get handled. We can only wait and see on those issues, I guess, but taking a closer look at how mousing around is handled is something a web designer could look at before the 29th. @treyharrell

The landscape/portrait is a really interesting issue when combined with what looks like a lack of scroll bars. For the purposes of the game, we tried to take advantage of the mode changes by using them to show/hide extra player info, but I don’t know what it’ll mean for regular pages. In the Apple videos I’ve seen, pages appear to be rendered by some method at their “largest” size, and you’d flick/zoom around using the iPhone screen as a kind of portal view on the page. I have no idea what that is going to mean for elements that are sized relatively. What does it mean to say something has 50% width when there is no window to size it relative to? I also wonder how things like CSS position:fixed is going to get handled. We can only wait and see on those issues, I guess, but taking a closer look at how mousing around is handled is something a web designer could look at before the 29th.

]]> By: treyharrell http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-5 treyharrell Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:07:27 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-5 I've got an article I wrote last week regarding <a href="http://www.iphone-geek.com/2007/06/17/get-developing-iphone-browser-interaction-assumptions/" rel="nofollow">development and interaction considerations for the iPhone</a>. Hover interactions are gotchas, and also that the user has the choice if she wants to be viewing in landscape or portrait mode and the site should degrade properly for both. I've also got a trivial little PHP function on there that sniffs user agent, because I believe we should reserve the media="mobile" for other, dumber devices to use that are closer to a WAP browser. I’ve got an article I wrote last week regarding development and interaction considerations for the iPhone.

Hover interactions are gotchas, and also that the user has the choice if she wants to be viewing in landscape or portrait mode and the site should degrade properly for both.

I’ve also got a trivial little PHP function on there that sniffs user agent, because I believe we should reserve the media=”mobile” for other, dumber devices to use that are closer to a WAP browser.

]]> By: Nick Fitzsimons http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-4 Nick Fitzsimons Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:43:28 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-4 Assuming the use of a mouse has long been recognised as a bad idea, in that it discriminates against those unable to use one. The W3C's <a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-device-independence" rel="nofollow">WCAG 1.0 points out that</a> "the user may interact with the user agent or document with a preferred input (or output) device -- mouse, keyboard, voice, head wand, or other." Hopefully interfaces such as the iPhone's will make web developers more aware of the need to make content accessible via many different modes of interaction. Assuming the use of a mouse has long been recognised as a bad idea, in that it discriminates against those unable to use one. The W3C’s WCAG 1.0 points out that “the user may interact with the user agent or document with a preferred input (or output) device — mouse, keyboard, voice, head wand, or other.” Hopefully interfaces such as the iPhone’s will make web developers more aware of the need to make content accessible via many different modes of interaction.

]]> By: subsume http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-3 subsume Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:56:42 +0000 http://subsume.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/less-reaching-out-and-more-touching/#comment-3 I must have missed that; do you have a link to the video on Apple's site where that happens? Still, even if Steve mentioned it in passing, it hasn't received very much attention by anyone else. Just like I can't recall Steve saying anything about it, I can't recall any mention in the hundreds (or thousands) of news stories that have covered the iPhone. I must have missed that; do you have a link to the video on Apple’s site where that happens? Still, even if Steve mentioned it in passing, it hasn’t received very much attention by anyone else. Just like I can’t recall Steve saying anything about it, I can’t recall any mention in the hundreds (or thousands) of news stories that have covered the iPhone.

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